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Ken Shamrock On That Chairshot From The Rock, WWE Hall Of Fame Snub, Refusing To Wrestle Chyna
Ken Shamrock (@ShamrockKen) is a retired MMA fighter and professional wrestler. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet at West Coast Creative Studio in Hollywood, CA to talk about his time in UFC and what made him transition to professional wrestling, being the special referee for the WrestleMania 13 match between Bret Hart and Steve Austin, his relationship with The Rock, whether a WWE Hall of Fame induction could happen, The Rock appearing on TNA as part of his TNA Hall of Fame induction, the scrapped MMA fight against Bobby Lashley, if he was ever planned to be in the Brawl For All tournament and more.
Check out Ken Shamrock's Tru BK at http://trubk.com
Quote I'm thinking of: “Do not wait. The time will never be just right. Start where you stand, and work whatever tools you may have at your command and better tools will be found as you go along.” — Napoleon Hill
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"I've had a relationship with them forever, even since when I went away, we did a legends contract, so I've always been a part of them. It's one of those things where I think I spent enough time there and did enough there that I feel like I'm a part of that family forever."
"I am. Yes."
"They're constantly, always putting stuff out, so it's been a good thing. Like I said, I feel like, you know, I spent enough time there and did enough things to where I feel like family."
"That's a great question and I get asked that a lot, which I guess is a good thing, right? I probably think I'm in four or five different ones, wrestling included. But no, when people ask that, it's not really something that I think about a lot. I enjoyed my time in wrestling. I thought while I was there it was enjoyable. I mean, I went into it because it was an opportunity for me because the MMA was struggling and I wasn't able to make the money I needed to support my family, so I had to make a decision. So I made that decision to go into wrestling, not knowing how that would turn out. Obviously, it was risky, but I did it. And fortunately for me, I fell in love with it. It was a great opportunity for me, and I enjoyed, all the moments that I had there. A lot of them with The Rock, and a lot of people think it's crazy, but I enjoyed the chair shot."
"Everybody keeps looking at that, and they say it over and, oh, man, that must have hurt. For me, it's funny, because it would hurt so much more if I didn't see it coming. Top of the head, back of the head. I wanted it. I was like, bro, you were not hitting me in the head, like the top of the head or back of the head. I want you to hit me right in the face. He's like, shut up. He thought I was kidding. I was like, bro, come on, man. I'm not taking it to the back of the head or top of the head. I say, if you're gonna swing, you swing for my face and I'll take care of the rest. I mean, I literally said that, swing for my face and I will protect myself. And he looked at me with this bewildered like, where's the punchline? Where's the joke here? And I looked and I said, No, I'm serious. And he's like, I'm not doing that. And I said [then] I'm not taking it. I said swing from my face. I'll protect myself. And he goes, You sure? And I was like, Yeah. And I remember, look right at him in the eyes, and I go, you better swing it. And he says, Oh, I'll swing it."
"Well, he swung for my face like I asked him to. And I told him it's not his responsibility. It's mine. You, swing it and I'll do the rest. And so he did, and all I did was just like I would in a fight. I tucked my chin and it hit me right in the forehead. And anybody knows how the skull is put together, the thickest part is your forehead. And just like within football, and now they can't do it, but you usually hit with the forehead. And if you get punched, most of the time, if you hit somebody in the forehead, you break your hand. So I just logically thought if I was going to get hit in the head, hit me in the hardest part. That was a great moment, though, because I had no idea what it would look like, or what the impact of that would be. It was just basically a thought in my head, because I saw everybody else doing it, and I was like, Man, that is just a dumb way to take a chair hit in the top of the head, back of the head, and I ain't doing that. Hit me in the forehead."
"Obviously any athlete that goes through a career and has made an impact wants to be recognized, and I do want to be recognized. But I don't think of it until it's brought up, right? It's not something that I dwell on because I felt like everything that I've done in my life, I've been blessed to have been in those moments. What comes after that is just icing on the cake. And if that happens it's going to be a true thrill. But like I said, it's not something that I lose sleep over. I've really enjoyed my journey and very happy with the way my life has turned out."
"A lot of that nickname or moniker or whatever you want to call it, there's this unwritten rule in whatever sport you're in, you cannot name yourself, you can't give yourself that name. Fortunately for me, I got it through an NBC or ABC, I don't remember which one it was of the world's most dangerous things. So when it actually came out, it was one that I didn't think I would like, just because of the nature of what UFC was in 93. People didn't look at it like it was a normal thing, and they kind of looked down on it. There was this kind of cult following, and it wasn't until probably UFC 5 that they kind of humanized the individuals and who we were, and we were no different than anybody else. We just chose a different job."
"I had to make this decision on my own, because I wanted to take care of my family. My family came first, and doing what I wanted to do came second. It came down to that, my family or do what I love doing. So I chose to try to make the money I needed to support my family. Not just my family. I had six fighters living in a house and I supported them, every new fighter that came in, I trained them for six months to a year, and I had this gym with three different buildings, one for weight training, one for kickboxing and one for grappling, and three different buildings. And so I had a pretty good business going. And it was a decision I had to make in order to make money, to be able to support all that going on. And I felt, if I went into pro wrestling, that I could make the money I needed to keep it going, which was a risk, to see that if MMA would improve and get better, and then I could go back to it. And so I made that choice to go into pro wrestling because I needed enough money to support what I had built."
"Again, I didn't know, because remember, I'm a fighter, and I just tried to go in and do what I thought was normal. So normally, I'm used to just sparring, right? You spar, but you don't hurt guys. And that's kind of what I did with Vader. I kind of went and sparred with him, didn't want to hurt him, and I guess I ended up breaking his nose, didn't know it. Then I find out later on that he gave me a receipt when he hit me hard, I went down real hard. That's like the chair shot, where people look at it and go, Oh, Vader really nailed him, he must have pissed Vader off. I'm thinking to myself, what? What are you talking about? And then I watched him and I was like, that's awesome! You guys really think that was really [hurt]. That's awesome, man. I can do this."
"Even when we walked back to the locker room, I thought it was a crappy showing. But when I walked back into the locker room, I remember Bret Hart was the first one I looked at. He went, Dude, that was good. I'm thinking to myself it just didn't feel right. I've been fighting all this time and I wouldn't do this, and just didn't feel right. And then Vader came up to me and says bro, good job, man. Good job. He said, I think he broke my nose. And I was like, Huh? He goes, he when you threw the knee. And I was like, oh, sorry. He goes, Ah, bro, I don't worry about it, man. It was a good match. And I was like when I did it, I didn't feel that good about it. But then when I watched, I was like, Damn, that was good, that wasn't bad, and that was my actual very first one, really going and working with someone like that, right?"
"I hadn't been introduced yet, I hadn't really been on the scene. So when they asked me to do it, and this was Bret Hart, Stone Cold, I'm like what am I gonna do? Shouldn’t it be a referee doing this? I don't know what I'm doing. I'm not a referee. And you're like, No, we think it'd be great, man. It would add that thing to it, you're there, you're going to make sure that nobody gets out of line, and you're going to regulate these matches. I was nervous. I mean, this is Bret Hart and Stone Cold, these guys are it. I was so scared I was going to screw up the match or miss something, because I never ref, I'm not a referee. I remember going into that, and I'm thinking to myself, Man, well I guess I'm going to find out whether I'm staying or going, because if I screw this up, I'm gone. There's no way I recover from this. So I went in and just I kept thinking to myself, all right. I tell you the reason why I was more nervous was that I didn't know if I could act, if I could make things with my facial expressions, or doing what those guys do so good. I didn't know if I could do that because everything I'd done to that point was legit. I knocked the heck out of people, and I meant what I meant. Now I got to go in and I got to do something that I don't know if I can do at this level. So I remember going in there, and I would say probably a minute, minute and a half into the match, I completely forgot everything. I mean, it was like I was actually refereeing an MMA match. I literally went from being nervous, not knowing whether I could do this or not to I'm in it and it's a fight. These guys are fighting. I didn't have to change anything from what I knew. My career in MMA when I was in there with those guys, they were hitting each other. They were putting these moves on one another. And I kept thinking to myself, he's gonna tap, he's gotta tap, he's literally tearing him up. Then all of a sudden he would reverse it and I was into it as much as the fans were, like it was that legit to me, and I was standing that close to him, and I know those guys beat the hell out of one another."
"It had to be a long time ago. I remember looking at that video. I mean, I don't even think Rock knew how to perfect it yet, because when he was just starting, I remember laying on the mat looking up at him, going, bro, this is just not a good site. You don't have to be standing over the top and with your legs spread pointing to the crowd that long, make your move! [laughs]. That was one thing great about working with The Rock is that I felt like that was a great opportunity for us to really put ourselves in the mix with the greats. Shawn Michaels, Stone Cold, The Undertaker. That was a loaded roster, and I felt like me and Rock had the opportunity to put us in the mix on one of the best matches on the card those nights that we were together. It felt like the more that we worked together, the better we became. And to a point too where I believe that we were rivaling any main event that they put on our card, and that was a testament to The Rock and some of the hard work that he put into those matches with me and him."
"I was being inducted into the Hall of Fame and you can only get so many [chances] to actually have somebody say something about you. I felt like The Rock was a very big opportunity for me in pro wrestling, there was one of those things in your career where you know that one thing helped you get where you needed to go. I felt like the matches with The Rock was a huge part of bringing me into that world of wrestling and becoming relevant. I know it was for him because prior to that, we kind of came in at the same time. Prior to that, he was struggling, he was with The Nation, kind of in a group of people, and no identity. I felt like when we were put together, we both got to really kind of become a figurehead in pro wrestling. I was already something in MMA, had already built that no question. But coming into this world, the fans had to identify me as something, and working with The Rock gave me that opportunity, because that was the real first opportunity for me to work a program with somebody, a long working program with somebody, and I felt we did a tremendous job."
"That was one of those times where it was uncomfortable, because I was so close to Bret. He helped break me into the business, because I went up, trained with him, worked with them, and then that happened. Again, I wasn't in the conversations with Vince and Bret and wasn't on the inside. So I don't know what happened. I don't know who was right and wrong, but I know who helped me. I know who worked with me and helped me understand the character that I needed to be. Then, of course, getting the opportunity to wrestle in the WWF, Vince gave me an opportunity. Bret helped me develop my character. It was a very uncomfortable spot for me. Then moving on past that it just felt like in that, in that moment, it felt like I had no identity, like I wasn't going anywhere. There was no program."
"I was being asked to do other things that just weren't comfortable. I'm not saying anybody was trying to hurt me or anything, but it's just some stuff that I just didn't feel comfortable doing [The Ryan Shamrock angle?] Yeah that and then, you know, my own personal thing was I just didn't want to get in the ring with Chyna. I taught my children at a young age and they were at the time, eight, seven and five, young kids going to school. One of the things that I drilled into their head was that you respect women and that you don't lay your hands on them. Then I was asked to do that, and I get it, this is entertainment. I get all that. But again, we talked about this earlier where my family comes first, and if I'm doing something that's going to possibly, might not, but possibly confuse them, I'm not doing it. And it was not like WWE had it in for me, it wasn't it. It was just things that I believed in, and it just felt like I was constantly going in a direction that had no end to it."
"No, nothing at all. The fact is, it was very respectful when I said I didn't want to do it. Now I may have gotten beat a few times, but it was no angering like that. I enjoyed my time and truly blessed to have the opportunities that I've had, but I believe that everybody has to make their decisions in life and try to do what's best for them and their family. I felt at that moment that I needed to make a move and get back into what I love doing. Don't get me wrong, I love wrestling, and I enjoyed it, and I probably would have stayed much longer if I felt like there was a direction for me. I just didn't feel that."
"Man, that was a long time ago. I don't even remember, but one thing that I want people to know, and anybody that knows me, and anybody that's ever been around me, and anybody's ever trained with me knows this for a fact. I'm afraid of no one. Even to this day, I'm afraid of no one. It's a friggin fight. You put a gun to my head I mean, yeah, I'll be a little bit nervous, but my character in the way that I grew up, I'm not afraid that's not in me. That's not a part of me. So whatever happens throughout my career with different things, because it's been probably three or four more, it fell through, and mostly because of the negotiations. I never negotiated my fights as I became bigger and bigger, I got agents to do that. So when they fell through, it had nothing to do with me. It's the negotiations, and for whatever reason, and a couple of these other different things that people want to say, Oh, you just didn't want to fight him. I promise you this, if you're a fighter and you're at that 1% level, that will never happen to anyone, not wanting to fight somebody. That's not in our DNA. That's not how it works. That's not how brain fighters brains work. That's what we do for a living man. It's like, that's how we make money. You think we're afraid of an individual because we may get hit. Come on."
"Yeah. And again, I don't know how or what happened and why it didn't happen. There's a couple of other ones too, that happened. I'm supposed to fight somebody in England. I forget his name, and it fell through at the last minute, and had to do something with negotiations, and all of a sudden they're screaming he didn't want to fight him. He was afraid of him. I was like yeah, that's how I became a champion because I'm afraid to fight people. It's unbelievable. But just as an education, man, anytime that ever happens, I promise you, it has nothing to do with the fighter."
"No, and he didn't need to. I remember when it first started happening, people were like, you stole your ankle lock. And I was like, huh? That doesn't even equate in my brain, What are you talking about? Well, he's using the ankle lock. And I was like, I learned that from somebody. And then, of course, with what you said, Well, yeah, but you know he's using it in pro wrestling. And I remember thinking to myself, yeah, but I'm not there. If he would have done it while I was there, then there would be a problem, like, Hey, bro, that's my finishing hold. You can't do that."
"I was asked. I said No. Listen, I got paid big money, big, big money to fight [in the UFC]. So now they're asking me to do this thing for free? Listen I think anybody that has been involved in pro wrestling understands how hard it is to gain trust in the locker room. If guys don't trust you, they're not going to work for you. They're not going to allow you to do things that they feel they may get hurt with. So that was one of the things that Bret really instilled in me. It was being able to make sure that I had a relationship with the locker room. I would go up and say hi to people, shake their hand, be open to suggestions, building relationships, because you got to build trust. These guys got to trust me to go in the ring with them, and then they asked me to fight. I'm like, so now I'm going to go in there and beat the hell out of these guys and then go back and say, Hey, we're going to do a pro wrestling match. I just felt like that was kind of going against the grain of what I was trying to do there. I guess they were paying, I don’t know how much it was 50 grand or something, if you won it. I mean, you guys asked me to come here and do a certain thing, and we negotiated a contract for that, and now you want me to actually fight. So I'm doing two things now, and I just felt like, Yeah, this is not for me. I am not persuaded by insults and by ridicule, people saying you're afraid to go against the pro wrestlers and you're afraid to get in there, you're afraid of this guy, you're afraid of that guy… That does nothing. You're not going to shame me into trying to fight somebody. I mean, if I'm going to fight them, I'm gonna fight them, and we're gonna negotiate something, and we'll do it. But I'm not gonna be shamed into fighting. It just felt like that's what was trying to happen, not WWF, just fan base, because they were pro wrestlers and they're pro wrestling fans, and by me saying, No, I didn't want to do that. I'm not going to do that. There was that whole scene behind the scenes where people were saying, Yeah, the Shamrock is afraid. I'm thinking to myself wow, how soon people forget."
"Oh, Butterbean would have knocked that piss out of me! I got no business boxing that dude. That's not my game. In a boxing match, because I don't, I don't know how that was, but I don't believe you could have taken him down. But with the way that we could take guys down. That's a different game. That was my game."
"I mean, it's over, there's no question. I mean, I fought guys so much better than him that were strikers in the K1 that could kick and punch and knee and elbow, so no problem. But in a boxing match, man, he would knock the piss out of me."
"The opportunity my family gave me, the opportunity in pro wrestling and MMA and family."
