John Cena On His Heel Turn, Farewell Tour, The Rock, Fav Matches, 17th Championship, Brock Lesnar

How he feels heading into his last match:

"Great, truly great. We've been able to put programming that's held the attention of folks out there for a year, been able to leverage individual intellectual property and create attention through things like the time is now tournament, stuff like that's important, even when you can't be there, you kind of help him get eyes on the product. Gosh, I'm super excited about the 13th because they bought what I sold them. I would love for it to be, rather than just a tribute show, I want it to be a look ahead. I'll have my last in-ring performance. That is for certain. I'm not doing anything after that. But in doing so in the night too, we get big WWE Superstars so they can say they were on the card in non-canon exhibition matches against the best and brightest we got in NXT. So gosh, what a way to go out. Using those few hours that Peacock has given us and Netflix internationally to be able to say goodbye to a chapter in my life that's very important, and in doing so, hopefully get eyes on what could be the next two-decade run, or maybe give somebody that boot in the butt that like, Yo, this is what the noise sounds like. I'm really, really happy, man. I feel great."

How did you pitch the farewell tour?

"We have two options. At 48, I feel I can compete using magic, hocus pocus and all the tricks and wisdom I have, but the pace of the product has passed me by. I either post, ‘I'm done’, which is a post, or I can pump the brakes on all other activities for the year and dedicate this to being the last year. I know it hasn't been done, but this is what I think could possibly happen creatively. I'm allowing you to do whatever you want. I just want to try to use whatever energy I have to pass on and hopefully give audiences memorable moments. I think, I don't know if people understand it right away, because no wrestler ever retires, I'll be the first, but it's been great to see audiences get it and audiences understand. So now to be at these shows is something special, and we've had great moments come out of these shows. I'm not saying I'm the sole driving force behind it, but a lot of people are showing up to be like man, this is the last time I can see John, and then the show's been great enough to be like yeah, but I want to watch them fight too. So I'm very happy they bought it, and I think I would say everyone internally is happy, and I would say everyone externally has an opinion about it, which is good. Here we are in early December, looking forward to the 13th. I don't think there is apathy out there. I know some people are critical of it. Some people may be upset, some people may be overjoyed, but there isn’t apathy, and I think that means we did okay." 

How do you feel about that criticism?

"It's part of what we do. That is absolutely part of what we do. I love it because it's vocal and it starts a conversation. That's the thing. I've been part of this live criticism pit since WrestleMania Triple H or fighting Kurt Angle. That's what people don't understand, I am criticized all the time."

How much planning went into the schedule?

"The whole thing was like 3 years. So by then [2022], I knew I had a lot of opportunities outside of WWE, and those are very difficult to balance, not just being everywhere like the first half of this year for the tour, I was flying back and forth to Budapest and Morocco, making PLE dates. The day I announced, Jan 6, I left to land in Budapest to shoot the next day. That's a scheduling. The biggest hurdle to climb is insurance, and insurance is super pricey. Every date, the cost goes up, whether it be $500,000, $1,000,000." 

Because you might get hurt?

"Because you’re doing a picture, and you're being like, 'Hey, I have Saturday off.' That's the thing a lot of folks don't understand. It's like, but you have the weekends off, you can do this. Or they can shoot Tuesday through Saturday if they want. You can do every Monday. You're right, but the liability of, hey, I'm doing this action movie, and then I'm gonna go do, albeit choreographed action, but with a high variable that I could get hurt. If I get hurt, I can't come back to shoot. Or I get my nose broke, or if I get a black eye or something, we've already captured these moments on camera, and now I got to stop and wait for the thing to heal before I can shoot another frame. So that's something that I had to learn the hard way of like, my schedule is open. I can do it. It's an insurance thing, and this is what it costs. So trying to get a studio to leverage that to let you go play stunt man is impossible. So you got to a lot of times you got to come out of pocket, and that's a tough balance."

So you paid out of pocket for the insurance?

"There are ways to get everyone to play nice. A great way to start a diplomatic conversation is saying, I will invest. So whether it's 100% of the cost or a fraction of the cost, or like, Hey, can you help us out? Can TKO help us out? And I'll chip in. There's a lot of ways to be diplomatic, and when you want to do something, and when it's not purely about financial gain. With this year, it was like, I thought I was going to take the whole year off for WWE, but then when they said, 'I only need you for 36 [dates]', a few opportunities came up, and I was like, Okay, if I do the opportunities, I'm going to be on the hook for insurance. Insurance is this. I knew what I was signing up for. This will travel a long way. Thanks for your patience. Three years ago, I started getting these opportunities, and so I'm filming three, maybe sometimes squeezing in four movies a year. I'm on set all the time, which means I can't make any dates. Then I know my year in advance, these things going to pre-production earlier, so you know kind of what you're doing the next year. That's like 2022 booked, 2023 booked 2024 looks pretty busy. Okay, in 2022, what if we outline 2025? Why do you want to do that? Because I won't be able to physically do it past 48. So in 2022, we kind of laid the groundwork for the idea of this, and then in early '23, we pitched to TKO. We pitched the idea of a year, call it as you see it and again, lead with diplomacy. I think it's worth this, but you can think it's worth whatever. Please allow me to bet on myself. You want to run on incentivized contract, I want to do this. And I want to make everybody win. If you put down a buck, I want to give you back 10. And at the same time, I want to give everybody out there a run for their money, like we're really gonna go for it. I will do my best not to suck. I'm not just gonna go do the five moves of doom. I think we can do something real special. And they bought it. But it also takes a while to put that through the engine, so as soon as they bought it in like mid to early 2023, now I'm like, Okay, give me a list of all possible cities I got out. 60 cities put on my desk merchandise uniform for everybody, because I know it takes like nine months to clear IP design to get in production. Hats and wristbands take longer than T-shirts. When I announced in Toronto, 15 months out, we were like lasered in for everything. So we had every city, every potential city. Cool thing about the uniforms is they become awesome because we did so many. I actually, no kidding, I did 17 extras, and I'm trying to get Fanatics to release the never-seen 17 [merch line]. Houston's on there, Sacramento's on there."

Was the heel turned planned in all this?

"No, that stuff you see on Unreal is real. ‘We need to make Chamber big, so let's do something that'll shock everybody.’ ‘Hey, man, we got this idea.’ No problem, I'll do the best I can." 

Were you excited about it? 

"I'm excited about everything. I like the riddle. You see my stuff. I'm not exactly the most gifted athletic performer. I give you all I got."

How did you feel about the turn and the months that followed?

"This is just my perspective. What I like is people are talking about it. And the cool thing is, people who are critical of it, apparently had some idea in their head about what they wanted, which is great, because that means you're attached, that means you care. I enjoy that, and I hear that criticism. When we did it, we did it as a big moment, but with a purpose. Hey, this is going to ignite something with you and Cody. It's going to start in February and end in August, because you only have 36 broadcasts and Intuit and Rumble are gone. So now we're down to 34. Then we need some on the back end, with you actually being a good guy. So let's take it down to 24. We kind of have to tell a story that should be two years long, 52 weeks a year, plus 14 to 18 PLES. We got to do it in like 20 episodes of television. Okay, so it took my focus on Cody, on the championship and on frustrations that I've had, it all comes from a genuine place, things I could say. I'm so happy to say that I wouldn't retread the course, because I gave everything I had my poor wife. I'd wake up in the middle of the night writing promo lines and thinking about spots and stuff. The opponents I had were great, but I remember everyone talking in February and be like, this is how things change. Yes, this is a good plan. Okay, guys, if I'm gonna ruin this thing, like I'm gonna I'm gonna wrestle methodically, I have an idea of what ruining wrestling is."

What was the original plan for The Rock and Travis Scott?

"Who cares? It doesn't matter. We can talk about what could have been until the cows come home. And I think that's what's great about the people who are left standing. Certainly me and Cody. What's the change? this? All right, let's go. I don't dwell for one second on what could have been, because what could have been is Brock doesn't leave for the NFL and there's no John Cena."

Could there have been a match with The Rock?

"Could there be anything? That’s the thing that sucks about what could have been, it’s not what it is."

Was it talked about?

"I don’t care. First of all, I'm always the last to know. It doesn't trickle down to me. If you watch Unreal, that process is genuine. 'I talked to Rock and then the last guy I gotta call is John.' I'm usually the last guy they call because I'm the easiest. 'Yeah, let's do it. No problem. I'm in.' So I don't sweat the [small stuff]. 'Yo, we don't have those guys anymore.' Cool, what do you want to do? We would like to do this. We need you to start being more competitive. We want to put you in these matches. We were going to build to this. That's over. I didn't even get that. Okay, fine, great. What are we doing now? That's what's tough. I think it's great to talk about. It gives good argument, gives good perspective, of like, how do they book this stuff? A lot of that stuff's beyond control of even the people who own the sandbox. If I decide to walk, I have contractual obligations, but they I'm not gonna be there on the 13th. Like, if I decide that, you know, and they'll figure it out. I saw Austin get fired, you know what I'm saying. I saw Brock leave. I saw, you know, Dwayne take his break, and I don't sweat any of those guys for what they did. Austin was worn out. Brock was probably going to assault somebody in an airport, and Dwayne had such great opportunities, I don't fault people for being like, I can't do this right now. McAfee being burned out behind the booth. The guy has got so many opportunities, dude, you got to just focus on what you can do. I don't sweat them for that, but sh*t changes. Open opportunity for Wde Barrett, and I love listening to that guy on TV. Not that I didn't like Pa,t but I really like listening to Stu [Bennett]. So I don't really sweat it, but could there have been? That's why I don't choose my opponents." 

You didn't choose a single opponent this year?

"Only thing I wanted to do, the only idea I gave was about Saturday Night's Main Event on the 13th, saying it should not be a John Cena show. If everybody's saying you're going out on your own terms, which is BS, because I want to do it forever. Okay, you have an idea of this is how I want John to go out. You do. I have an idea of how I want to go out. And how I want to go out is not by folks remembering what I did. I want a chance to perform and do some good. You want to sprinkle in moments and memories to understand and make that last match more meaningful, fine, but let's use the rest of our two hours and show the future of the business. That's how I want to go out, because when I came in, there was a gold medalist who's like, I'll work with the kid. To be on a sold-out show in Chicago and hear that noise, I was already hooked, but that's it. I want to give NXT kids a chance to be there, and I want to give major WWE superstars a chance to be on the card. It's a limited thing. It's not WrestleMania, it's only limited spots, but that's how I want to go out. And there'll be people to criticize that. My theory, or my perspective was, if you do a whole show on John, two things can happen. Too much, not enough. No one's ever gonna be like, nailed it."

What did winning that 17th championship mean to you?

"I want to choose my words carefully. I have been apprehensive for quite some time for that, because I love Ric, super mentor to me, always been a great guy to me, and I love him. I meant what I said in the press conference at Rumble, and this is another thing, like I never wasted a second. We want you to do the press conference. How do I make these moments meaningful? I want to win 17 so I can shake the hand of the performer that wins 18. So what it meant to me, personally, was, 'Hey, young uns, one of them is going to be you. You better get working, because I don't want to be in the ground when 18 happens.' I want to shake somebody's hand. And something that's impossible is now possible. So that's what it means to me, hopefully, by my actions, this is possible. Holy hell, this guy wants to shake my hand when I pass it, and I can't wait to do that."

What about winning the Intercontinental Championship?

"What is special about that is I was able to work with Dom Mysterio three of my last four matches. And, gosh, that was really special. And honestly, the most special thing about winning it was being able to lose it how I did. That was really cool. I got to experiment with the US title and create an open challenge. And before that, I got to experiment with the US title and turn it into a spinner Bell. Turn it into a spinner belt. Twice, I was given what we in the company view as a secondary achievement, and was relentless in making it a primary objective. The guy on his way out. I said something in passing I'm like, that late IC title run just like Stone Cold had. You don't touch that stuff at the end. You're a champion. You're of this pedigree. You don't mess around with secondary objectives. In Boston, I made it mean something, and it did. It's a nice it's a nice win, and then the person who had it before me certainly gave value to it, but him beating me again for it, and now having it gives him even more value."

Why was the Brock Lesnar match so quick?

"Well, I guess quick is perspective, because my frame didn't feel like it was."

Quick relative to the other matches you have worked this year:

"Again, I love the public's ability to weigh in. You have this guy who's returning, who absolutely looks like he hasn't aged a day, moves like it. He can split his pants and still move like a ballerina, slip on his Pyro and do a ninja roll and be okay. He's a beast. It's his first time back. I've been in this seat before. It's like I'm always in the seat when Brock comes back, Rock after Miami, who's the next guy? SummerSlam with Roman, here he comes again. After he beats Taker for the streak, I've sat in this seat before. You have to figure out who gets the shine that night and if, in his return again, only my perspective. This attraction where we are going to build until he goes into the sunset, which is, I think, in Minnesota? Creatively, it's very soon. To create a mountain to climb for someone, you have to build the mountain. I'm on my way out. It’s not like it's gonna hurt me, but I'm a viable commodity, and it's a great main event. See these two titans for the last time, and it’s ok. Sometimes your team gets blown out. We were first on the program. I did the best I could. We all did the best we could to make it a competitive fight into the middle. People forget I was in that arena when Brock fell down for the first time on the shoulder tackle, and then I was able to give them all the stuff. They were into it, and then just a bunch of gratuitous F5's. That's how you build Brock."

That intro for AJ Styles was great:

"I just wanted to do something nice for my guy. I didn't even show Alicia until I handed her the paper. You don't get those moments unless you get the sh*t beat up. I wanted to do something special. I went about it the wrong way. I went into business for myself. I should have gotten permission to do that, and I would have gotten permission to do that, but I told no one about it, because I wanted to do something special, and in doing so, the people running the show felt surprised, and that's not a position I ever want to put them in because they award me such creative liberty."

I can’t imagine anyone had a problem with it?

"We're all trying to make these moments special, and we're all on the same team, and it shouldn't be me doing something outside that realm. If I tell my teammates, hey, let's do it. I can keep it from AJ, I can keep it from Alicia, but if I tell my teammates who are crafting this show, maybe they make it look better. The first thing I did was thank AJ, the second thing I did was pull a few creative individuals aside and say, 'I'm sorry. That will never happen again. I know where I f*cked up. I'm so sorry, and I went into business for myself. That's not me. I hope you look at my body of work, and all the times I've asked for permission, and this is the one time I ask for forgiveness.' It got the best of me, but I wanted to do something nice for AJ."

That match was so much fun:

"I just want to get that ball rolling. All right, they're wasting the heel turn at WrestleMania, and they're like, Oh, the Randy thing. And then the Punk, and then Cody, and then Logan in Paris was even kind of dope. And then you go to Brock, what? What are they gonna do next? And then you get the payoff, and we look at them all in individual moments, but it's why, until now, I have refused to give anyone any information about any of this, because I don't want to lead the witness. The last one is going to be the last one. We have told the story, everybody knows the drill, a tournament to decide, this is going to be it. I want the last one. I want people to look at the road ahead, 26 and beyond. I want them to take away some Superstar’s name from the 13th. But now we can reflect on the year. We get caught up in these moments, thinking that's all you get and not realizing that this is the commercial spot before the reveal, before the big finish. We've just had to digest it as it has been a year storyline, and reflecting back on it, I get excited and again, I don't feel I could have given anything else. So I'm very happy with how it's gone so far."

How nervous were you that you might get injured?

"That's a concern we have all the time, not just in my perspective, you don't think about it. I don't really try stuff I haven't done before on TV. I don't debut stuff for the first time out there. So I think that helps knowing what you're capable of. I've seen it firsthand. A lot of performers getting to the age and think there is good once as they once were, and again, I've leaned on what strength I have left, I've leaned on the wisdom I have and some of the tricks I've learned, but all the stuff I've done is within the realm of what I can do. You're seeing me do some stuff for the first time, but you're seeing it for the first time. I make sure to go through it a bunch so that I can bat 1,000 out there. And if I can't, it's just out, it gets cut. So I just don't think about that. I try to set the performance up for success, and then if you dwell on getting injured, it's gonna be all you think about in your mind elsewhere, and it's not in the moment."

You know there are some people who still don’t think you are retiring:

"I love that, and I don't knock them for that. Because this has never been done before. Wrestlers don't retire. So to be the first one, you’re gonna run into some scepticism."

What do you think is the one thing that allowed you to have the success you had?

"I have thought about life a lot. I'm super lucky. I know that. So luck, but it's very difficult to nail down an answer, because it could be tons of things. There's so much unpredictability in that to do this. I think what is certain from a mathematical standpoint, I'm borrowing from Johnny Carson and Charlie Munger, is how to fail. I think how you can fail in life is be uninvested, unprofessional, unreliable and uncoachable. I think if you repeatedly do those things, no matter how gifted or talented you are, you will fail. I have never been the most gifted or talented, but I've always tried to be invested, professional, reliable and coachable, and I have not failed because of lack of those dimensions. But I guarantee you, if you, if you do those four things, you're gonna, you're gonna crash and burn."

I’m gonna throw out some names, can you give me a word or phrase to describe them?

Cody Rhodes - Resilient

Randy Orton - Smooth

R-Truth - Beautiful. He makes everybody smile

Logan Paul - Underrated

CM Punk - My Wrestling soulmate

Drew McIntyre - A story of resilience

Sami Zayn - Underdog

Brock Lesnar - Once in a genre. There will be one Brock Lesnar in wrestling, and that's from like carnival time to the time we shut the lights out if we're lucky enough to get another. I don't know who it is.

AJ Styles - Best to ever do it. Shawn’s gonna be p*ssed, and God did Shawn ever take care of me. There’s not a lot he [Styles] can’t do, and he makes difficult look easy. But that is not God given talent. That is practice. When you see difficult become seamless, it's because it's been done 10,000 times, and the amount of sh*t he can do seamlessly. Man, he's best to ever do it.

Sheamus - This is way inside baseball, and only he's gonna get it. The World’s Tallest Wrestler.

Rey Mysterio - Mentor, and someone who allowed them to be a part of their family when he didn’t need to.

What are 3 things you are grateful for?

"The love and connection I have in my life, my health and the understanding that I am a part of the opportunities, but I have not done this by myself."

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