GUNTHER Is Surprisingly Funny! Making WWE History, Losing 65 Pounds, Learning To Speak English
GUNTHER Is Surprisingly Funny! Making WWE History, Losing 65 Pounds, Learning To Speak English
GUNTHER (@gunther_AUT) is a professional wrestler and the longest reigning WWE Intercontinental Champion of all time. He joins Chris Van Vliet to talk about making history in the WWE, whether or not he celebrated on his record-breaking night, who his favorite title defenses have been against, the difference between WALTER and GUNTHER, how he made a major body transformation and lost over 65 pounds, the viral photo of him and Ludwig Kaiser, how he learned to speak English from wrestling, wrestling against Chad Gable, why he thought WWE was never going to sign him, long-term storytelling and much more!
Quote I'm thinking about:
A work of art does not answer questions, it provokes them; and its essential meaning is in the tension between the contradictory answers. - Leonard Bernstein
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I feel like the world of pro wrestling moves so fast. I'm curious if you've actually had the time to sit and realise just what you've done and what you're currently doing with the Intercontinental Championship.
“I'm aware of everything that happens. But I don't allow myself to lean back and rest on that to be honest. I don't think that's the time for it right now.”
You don't seem like the type of person to celebrate. But I'm curious when you did break the record, did anything happen that night? Was there any sort of celebration in Charlotte, North Carolina?
“Well, we have the celebration in the ring to be fair, that was very nice with the fireworks and everything that I enjoyed a lot. But no, that day nothing happened Because my flight home the next day was at 6 am.”
Did anything happen when you got home?
“No, not really, I like to celebrate personal events a lot. But professional things is we got to put the work in first and then later on, there's going to be enough time in my life where I can celebrate it over and over again.”
So what does a personal celebration look like? Is it smoking a cigar? Is it having a drink?
“Yes, depends, smoking a cigar and having a drink and being with the people close to you. That's very important. And that's actually all I need to be honest.”
I think at the end of the day, with everything that you've accomplished here, what's so cool is seeing that long-term storytelling is a thing right now in WWE moments on this incredible historic run. You're on this incredible historic run as well. What does long-term storytelling mean to you?
“Good long-term storytelling, I think like often doesn't get realised, because the point where you realise it that the dots connect happens later. Almost the same when you watch a TV show and you go like they forgot about that thing. They don't bring it up again. But at the end, it's like a major factor for a big happening. And everybody goes like, Ah, now I get it. And I think especially in the WWE, it's super important because we have a weekly program. And I think it's one of the I don't even know if any other entertainment company faces the same challenges as WWE does with bringing on let's say innovative content, week by week that keeps the people hooked. And just with that, it's not just writing for like a TV show or something. And it's you got to add all the physical action into that so that means people are gonna get injured people can't get in the ring for many other reasons. That makes it even more even more tricky.”
At what point during this run did you realise this was something special?
“It sounds weird. There's a certain reaction I want from the audience. When I wrestle I have zero interest in the match where it's always loud and everything gets like a signature chant this and that a blah, blah, blah. I love it when people are just silent at the beginning of the match and don't say anything and just watch it because there's nothing where they can go. Yeah, boo, anything like that. They just watch the action. But once the first important thing happens. They come up and tear into it. And I try to get people drawn into the competition when I'm in the ring, and I try to develop drama in the competition and it's often when that is successful and you get a different reaction to what you do in the ring than most of the other matches. I just had that feeling again, we just did live events in Tennessee and Virginia and I was wrestling Sami Zayn and I was very happy with those matches we had there because the people yeah took what we did as an important match, was an Intercontinental Championship match something was on the line and both gave it their all and there was exactly yeah, that effort was reflected by the audience. Those are like the moments where that's what I'm looking for with like people watching the matches and go like, okay, we're witnessing something here that is important that has some magnitude. It's about a title. And that title is really important. I think, yeah, I just tried my best to explain the vibe I'm looking for in the audience when I wrestle.”
So look, we're sitting here right now, you've been the Intercontinental Champion for 520 plus days and counting. At what point it was at a weekend? Was it a month in? Was it six months in that you went? Oh, I'm starting to make this feel maybe more important than it's felt in a long time.
“Oh, yeah, definitely. But that's something I could kind of tell almost from the get-go, I would say the latest from Clash at the Castle match where I felt like, Okay, people are looking at his title, or whatever the title is on the line in a different way now. But that's what I'm aiming for having a title, obviously, that title can elevate a wrestler. But in the end, it's always the champion himself who makes the title. And I've always been when I try to do something in life, but especially professionally, I go full in or I don't bother doing it at all. So ever since I became the Intercontinental Champion, the only thing I'm doing is focusing on how to be the best Intercontinental Champion possible. What do I have to do? How do I have to carry myself? How do I have to act in the ring to give it that recognition? And it all worked out worked out very well, so far.”
I feel like The Miz was the person before you. It's so fitting that you guys are wrestling each other at Survivor Series because I feel like he was the person before you who really made the title mean something. And I'm curious if you remember something specific from any of his previous Intercontinental title reigns that he had?
“No, I don't remember anything specific out of Miz’s career, I can promise you that. As I said before, because I don't know. I forget the years, I don't know, maybe it was like, I'm really bad with the 2010 to 12, or something like that. I don't know. But there was a time when I came up as a wrestler, or even later, I didn't bother watching WWE because it was really not my thing. I liked Japanese wrestling. I love some of the indie stuff. And that's where my focus was. And I watched a personal entertainment, but also like the guys too like Japanese matches stuff that happens there. How can I use that? So The Miz for me was always the embodiment of that area, when I didn't like to watch WWE at all. So getting in the ring with him now is fantastic. Especially in WWE, and it's about the Intercontinental Championship, and it's basically the matchup of who really is the greatest Intercontinental Champion of all time. And I'm really excited for the match. It's honestly because I think when I joined, the main roster was clear for me, I need to make a statement. I’m not a guy out of that system I have been in NXT UK, I've been a little bit in NXT, but all my development, all my whatever, like character building, figuring myself out, and all of that happens way before WWE. So I'm not the typical [Superstar]. The Miz, on the other hand, is a prime example of how good their development system is. Because he started with them and he's one of the most decorated names they have. And I feel like especially in the presentation of the company in the general media world, he's just a very few have done better than him. So I wanted a challenge there's like, Okay, I need to, I'm still a little bit of a new guy here. I'm definitely still in WWE and a little bit outsider, if that makes sense. That's at least how I feel when I watch it. I'm not the typical WWE wrestler. So I always wanted to be in the ring with The Miz because first of all, he has that background with the Intercontinental Championship. And secondly, that's a great measuring stick for me if that makes sense, because it's a little bit of clash of two worlds.”
So with all that said, what's really interesting about your career is it was almost 14 years into your wrestling career that WWE, you know, found you and signed you. Was there any point along the way, when you didn't think you were gonna get that big break?
“Yeah, always, I was sure. In 2005 I had my first training right. And then a few years in whatever the wrestling scene in Europe and especially the German-speaking countries was still small, like nobody gave a damn about it. It wasn't on free TV like in general, the public, you get looked at weirdly when you watch wrestling like most people didn't even know what was going on. Like it wasn't, it was not a topic in the mainstream entertainment world. So all of that was so far away, it's like, even like 10 years ago, if somebody from England I think like Sheamus and Drew and Stu [Bennett] were like one of the first exceptions for Europeans to go there and actually make it or be somebody or Cesaro. And then for a long time, there was nothing and it was just something that is, well, that's not realistic. So don't aim for that. My goal was always I want to make a living of being a professional wrestler, that was always my goal. I want to make this my profession because I know something about it now. It's like I have a passion for it and I don't want to work a job that just bored the hell out of me. So I always wanted to make it a profession when I achieved that. That was already something unheard of. When I became a full-time wrestler and I had to be self-employed basically. And to every agency or every government body I had to go for whatever it was, pension, health insurance and all of that stuff I got looked at, yeah, like an alien like what are you what is your job? Because I think at that time, I was the only person in the whole of Germany who was a wrestler by profession. That was already like a big step and then everything else just fell into place over time, the indies changed big time. There was before COVID There was such a big boom in the indie scene in England especially but all like in the States as well. And WWE decided to open the doors to Yeah, the independent wrestling world and also to Europe. So that's brought up a lot more possibilities, obviously. And then everything just fell into place. So yeah, it was never my big dream to go there. I think it was more passionate to wrestle All Japan once at some point. As like a big dream than being with WWE.”
How old were you when you learned how to speak English? And how did you learn to speak English?
“We had it at school, but I wasn't good. I was really bad. I only picked it up for wrestling. So maybe. I started speaking English I would say 2000. And like, more regularly like 2012 13 When WWE always had English and American guys around and you just have to make it your second language a little bit. But my first language now I feel like I don't speak German that often.”
The fact that you can speak more than one language I think is this. It's almost like a superpower.
“Thank you very much. I'm still learning it. It's like whenever I have like a conversation going on or hear word that I don't understand all of the context and stuff. I try to google it right away and remember for next time, so I know that. But yeah, obviously my wife is English as well. So it's the language of the house as well. stuck with it, but I gotta be. I mean, I'd say thank you. It's a compliment. But also I have to say, English is very easy to learn compared to German or like French, for example. Those are the languages that are way more complicated than English. And there's a reason why it's the world language, it should be easy to learn it.”
So there's this photo that has been floating around online for months. Have you and Ludwig Kaiser, have you seen this photo of you guys? You're very young, you know, the one I'm talking about? How old? Are you guys in this photo and talk me through what's what's happening here?
“I can tell exactly what happened to him because we just talked about it. Yeah, on Monday at Raw, because somebody backstage was asking us about that. It was literally I think the first time we actually met was that day, because that must have been after a wrestling show in northern Germany where it was booked. And I think Marcel's was booked. So he was around and there was a little bit of a party afterwards. I don't know the occasion for in the wrestling school myself was training and that's where yeah, that picture happens. So basically we all got drunk after wrestling.”
But the funny thing is both of you guys are pretty much unrecognisable in that photo.
“Oh, yeah. I guess the weight I dropped he gained over time. But yeah, it's very nice. It's just a reminder of like, why you should take pictures for your own collection because that's a good example of like, obviously, it's really nice to look back now. Like, look at us now and then look back where basically, we ran into each other the first time. Yeah, it's nice to look at them.”
If you put a photo of Walter and Gunther side by side, I think there are a lot of people who wouldn't believe that that's the same person.
“Oh, yeah, it's like when I see it now, like when I see them, I'm shocked. I'm like, Oh my God. But before when I was my old me, I didn't feel like somebody that was a little it too heavy that. Like I didn't feel like an overweight person was up to like that because it was always very comfortable. Like looking back now and seeing the difference like oh my gosh, like how I mean, you know, you work on yourself you know how it is like because you never started to like you can be on a diet and feel really shredded, but then you go out to one really good meal and the next day you feel like oh my gosh, yeah, everything's out the window, right? So I'm just feeling Why is it going. Like, I don't know. I'm good most of the times anyway, but then we go out for a nice dinner or something. Have a few drinks the next day and body-feeling-wise, I feel like the old me again. But that's that's obviously not true. But that's how your mind tricks you a little bit.”
But what was the first step towards making that transformation? Because I mean, you truly do look like a totally different person now.
“Yeah, it is definitely I mean, like, the first step was like we've been during COVID Like we have a friend that is like a bodybuilder and he's coaching people. I think he's owning a gym now and runs it and stuff. And he was he started to help Kiaser and Gio with their diet a little bit and they were following a diet they got in incredible shape. So we had that guy around and I was never really that's the one thing I have to say and usually was always on top of things in my adult life. But the diet is always something I kind of like neglected because I was good the way I was when I signed for the main roster and I knew Okay, moving over now I know I'm gonna be on national TV I thought okay, let's bring the best version of yourself you can you got to be in front of millions of people every week. I think that step is necessary now and yeah, I'm glad I did it. I feel like the independent wrestling Walter that was a little bit bigger and it looked like a butcher from the next-door shop. That was cool. I think that was fine for them. And I feel like for the wrestling enthusiasts yes. On the independent market. They like when you think back like Stan Hansen or Terry Gordy like the bigger guys, I think it has its place in wrestling a little bit. But I felt like it was time to make a step and progress.”
I'm always so curious. I've always been so curious when you were WALTER, why was it in all caps like you were yelling your name at us?
“Because of KENTA and was the other guy called. I thought I was first on the Indies as a babyface I was Big Daddy WALTER so I was like oh I'm gonna be a heel now so what are we doing? I said you know what just Walter but do all caps I think it looks amazing and yeah that did that because like in when you watched NOAH back then Pro Wrestling NOAH you will always see the match lineups, but it was all Japanese. So you want to understand KENTA was always the five big letters. I went, you know what is a good way to stand out I am going to do that as well.”
So with the correct way to spell Gunther now with that, is that all caps?
“That is all caps. Definitely.”
Everyone talks about how hard your chops are. In fact, when I saw you last time you were talking about how you use your hand and your forearm. Who's chopped you the hardest?
“Um, I don't know. I was shocked one time I remember I wrestled in Germany back then. I was wrestling Pentagon actually and I chopped him and he chopped me once and I was bleeding right away. It was like What? What is going on? Some of the Mexican colleagues are gonna say they chop like it's, the movement is a little bit like it's a whip, if that makes sense. It's because they chop from overhand and most of them do. That is painful I gotta say.”
What would you say give us like maybe three what have been your three favourite championship defences that you've had as the Intercontinental Champion?
“I would say WrestleMania for sure, Sheamus and Drew. I was very happy with that, in general was a great day and weekend for me. My family was there and stuff like that. It was overall a really awesome experience. I would say Chad, Chad Gable, it felt good. I love an underdog scenario like the David and Goliath scenario. Who would be number three? Clash at the Castle is good. But I already mentioned Sheamus and he doesn't deal too well with too much attention. So I can't mention him again. Well, I think Drew the thing is SummerSlam against Drew, I think it was a match I was really proud of as well. Because Drew is such an established guy in WWE. And if you look at his story, it's very impressive. I think he was the young guy that got kicked, but he wasn't like, I'll let it be. He grit his teeth and worked himself up again. And then he worked himself up to the he was the champion. He beat Brock at WrestleMania. And even though nobody was there was still WrestleMania. He figured out a way to like really belong in that top picture of the company. It's like they would see Drew McIntyre. Okay, that guy. People turn around when that guy enters a room, right? So yeah, so being in the ring with him and having that kind of match with him at SummerSlam. I really liked that. It was like it for me, it was a big test to have to match with Drew. And just to see if I can, yeah, just hang with him in there on that stage and have a matchup and magnitude.”
You're certainly the person that people think of when they think of this current design of the Intercontinental Championship, as you called it for so long. Who was the person that you thought of when you were a kid when you thought of the Intercontinental Championship?
“Um, I think Shawn, I grew up the first time watching the WWE VHS back then there was a time when Sean had the ladder match with Razor and Shawn against Jeff Jarrett Rumble 95, for example. And Shawn had his thing of, like walking out with the title right and getting counted out. So it doesn't lose the title. They should have been really quicker with adjusting that rule. To be honest, he got away with that quite often. Likewise, I have to say, but by management, no, but Shawn would be the guy I would connect with that.”
Were you a Shawn guy growing up?
“Yeah, like, I wasn't anybody's guy to be honest. I really enjoyed wrestling and a lot of aspects of it. So I didn't really have that one favourite where I was like, yeah, there were times I enjoyed the undercard and mid-card matches more than the actual main events because I feel like, especially like in the early 2000s, sometimes they felt or late 90s It was always the big outside brawl. In the main events, before something happened in the ring, and I like the matches more when it gets to the actual quick.”
I feel like we get such tiny little slivers of who you are outside of the ring. And sometimes you give them to us like when you got married. Congratulations on that. What makes you decide to give us these little slivers into your personal life?
“You make me seem like a big strategist when it comes to that.”
Are you?
“I'm totally not. In general, often I just operate like and I just do what feels right, if that makes sense. Even if it's something that would benefit me, but it doesn't feel right for me to do then I'm not gonna do it. And sometimes it feels right for me to share a little bit of my private life but I like to have that. In general. I like to have that as minimal as possible. I don't like the idea of oversharing your own life or whatever reach or interaction and stuff like that. At the end of the day, I don't think it's healthy if that on-screen persona Gunther and my personal self would melt and become the same person. I like to have to a little bit separated for me.”
But I mean You scroll through your Instagram. It's like it's all you know your accomplishments in WWE, and you keep scrolling, and you scroll some more. And then you're like, oh, there, he's a real person here. And then you keep going and its’ WWE.
“Oh, yeah, of course. I mean, especially on social media and stuff. That's what it stands for. To promote my career and promote myself. It's a tool for that. And most of the personal happenings get only shared in the very small circle.”
I don't know if everybody has picked up on this, but there are occasions when you call it the Intercontinental Heavyweight Championship. When did you start working heavyweight into it?
“Um, when I was reading it, when I was reading that was on the title actually, it says on the title heavyweight. Like, okay, I have to say it, that was all it was. I was I wasn't really paying attention to that. But at one point, I was just looking at the title and was like it says heavyweight, intercontinental heavyweight champion.”
It just feels like a little thing that is like, I don't know, it's taken up just even another notch now?
“Yes, um, obviously, it helps. It's I feel like because we all grew up with, like, what was the most popular boxing matches heavyweight fights, we grew up? What are the most popular wrestling matches the big heavyweight matches? It's, you know, I mean, what's the main event in Olympia weightlifting? The heavyweight? It's always that, I think, because we grew up with that a little bit. So when you add that to the title, it just helps. Yeah, just makes it appear even more significant than before.”
When you're at home like you are now. Is there a place for the Intercontinental Heavyweight Championship? Does it live in a certain spot?
“Um, yes, on top of my suitcase, and I'm ready to go again. And because I got to pack it in Wednesday, today, in two days.”
what has been your greatest story of taking that championship through TSA? The airport?
“So in Orlando. It's actually good. Because there are so many wrestlers living in Orlando, that by now they kind of know when they see it. Okay. It's title. They did. Look who is that? Those guys again? They know us there that's good. But sometimes people get carried away a little bit. I had there were a few situations where I had to be like, can you do your job, sir. Thank you. When they start, like taking it or showing it off, or whatever it is, it's not a toy, but a guy do your job. Thank you. But as the champion that my Well, it's my job, that's why I carry it with me, so nobody can mess around with it.”
I can only imagine a TSA agent bringing it out and like attempting to challenge you for it or something like that.
“You hear everything there was one guy actually was quite funny because I had a streak of like, annoying incidents there. And then it takes forever. And I gotta go to the flight. And this time, I was annoyed already. And it went to the side and I said to guys, I actually was like, not again, and he was like, no, no, that guy he looks, he looks serious. He looks like he knows what his job is. Like, talk to him and I turn around and I see that guy grabbing my suitcase lifting it like that over his head walking towards me that he slammed it on the table opened it up took the title out. Said something stupid I was like I had enough was like, Okay, guys, do your job. Put the title bag. Come on. But that's part of it, in general. But I like the idea of the champion carries the title by himself always did that. I was on the indies when I was the PWG champion. I said, I take the title with me 100% Wherever I go, and on the Indies, it's a little bit. It's a good gives you a little bit of leverage as well. So they got to book here again.”
You know, I really can't see you losing this championship at any point with the run that you're on right now. Do you think it might be possible for you to hold both the Intercontinental Championship and the WWE Championship at the same time?
“I think that is possible. But we will see. It's just so hard to get to there. Once a year. I have the chance when the Rumble comes around. I came very close last year. Let's see what happens this year. I think that it's absolutely possible. And that's also not my focus right now.”
Is the focus just are you going to take this to 1000 days? Is that Is that what the focus is?
“I don't plan on losing it. I think no champion does that. At all. So I know that there will be a time where I lose it. That's nothing lasts forever. And it's the same case or my battle, right? That will not last forever either. But it’s on me to hold on to it as long as possible.”
Is there a number?
“I gotta be fully honest. It's like I have not once I've taken a break or like if I look how many days or I was never paying attention to that I only find out mostly through Twitter because it was linked into something where it was like reached that new thing that it's nice to see but I never have to number my add myself because I don't like to compare myself with others, the others do their thing. I just focus on myself and compete with myself and I don't think it's healthy to Yeah, you can endlessly compare yourself to others there will there will always be somebody that is better than you.”
One of the best things about talking to you is you're just so you're so kind, I don't know if people like realise this, like you're just so kind in real life. And I appreciate that. It's always great to talk to you.
“Thank you. Um, yeah, I try to not change who I am. Or even though with all this stuff that happens because life changes dramatically when you make good money and stuff like that, and you get recognised and you get you can do this for free and no jump in front of the line. It's you and sometimes that's comfortable. And sometimes I don't you know, it's not necessary because at the end of the day, work is work and the person who I am is who I am. Let's do different things.”
I end every conversation talking about gratitude. So what are three things in your life that you're grateful for as we sit here right now?
“My wife, my friends, my family.”