Frankie Kazarian On Becoming TNA Champion, Leaving AEW, Ultimate X Matches, WWE Run

Frankie Kazarian (@FrankieKazarian) is a professional wrestler currently signed to TNA and the reigning World Champion. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet at West Coast Creative Studio in Hollywood, CA to discuss the controversial way he won the World Title, why he left AEW to return to TNA, how close he came to signing with WWE and why his first run didn't lead to more, being a part of the first Ultimate X match, his wife Traci Brooks possibly returning to wrestling, and more!

You became TNA World Champion at 48 years old. Did you think at one point it wouldn’t happen?

“Absolutely. I mean, there was a time early on, like 2007-ish, where I was kind of on the come-up as a singles babyface, getting some good matches, and had a lot of good momentum. But just seeing who was above me on the ladder was like, just don’t think it’s going to happen for me. I will say, at the time, from an in-ring standpoint, I think I was a very good wrestler. I don’t think I had developed my personality and promo skills to what you need to be a World Champion. Then years went by and kind of became a fleeting thought, it’s just not going to ever happen. But I always like to say this, dreams do not have an expiration date. So, 48 years old or 28 years old, doesn’t matter. I got the job done.”

You look better now than you did in your 20s:

“I am. With weight training, nutrition, all of that, diet, it’s trial and error. Just in terms of how if you want to be big, if you want to be lean, if you like all of that, and you figure out eventually what kind of works for you. Like we were discussing earlier, when I broke into the business to get even looked at by WWE, you had to be big, like big. I was always told when I would be scouted by WWE, ‘Just put on some size, put on some size.’ I would put on 10-15 pounds, and I just would look soft and kind of dumpy, and I realized that after a while, after a long while, my frame is only going to support so much, so just look like an athlete. It’s better for me. I move better when I’m leaner, when I’m not carrying extra weight, I have a lot more energy and stamina. So yeah, now it’s just a matter of looking as good as I can possibly look, as lean as I can possibly be, and it’s a constant battle, man. It takes a lot of hard work and dedication, but it’s my lifestyle.”

When do you feel like you flipped the switch on character work?

“Honestly, really, when Chris Daniels and I started teaming in 2012, because I could feed off of him. Him and I were best friends in real life, and his timing and his wit and just everything. It was just incredible. We worked because the way we talked and the way we did promos, everything was just like how we were in the car. So I became very, very confident and very comfortable, especially when I had him out there with me, because we just fed off of each other so well, and he helped me a lot in that aspect. And then, from then on, I really just started to focus more on that.”

People hate how you won this championship:

“Good. You know, it’s show business. Sometimes the Joker beats Batman, sometimes the bad guy wins. What matters to me is that they’re angry, and that tells me that they care, tells me that they’re paying attention.”

You picked your moment perfectly:

“From a character standpoint, why would I not go after a wounded animal when I see one? That’s kind of bad guy 101. We’re still in the storytelling business, and the business has evolved and gotten rather complex, but at the end of the day, it’s still kind of black hat versus white hat. At least that’s the way I approach it.”

So as we are recording, you, AJ Styles and Samoa Joe all hold championships:

“It’s nuts. It’s crazy. It’s cool. I didn’t even really realize that until after the match happened. I went and started looking at my phone and everything. I was like, wow, Joe and AJ have belts. They’re my buds. I still talk to them, but I didn’t realize, Oh, that’s right, AJ is one of the tag champions. And just so it’s cool, man. That’s just heartwarming. That picture in particular, that’s my wedding party right there.” 

And you are all holding championships in 3 companies:

“Part of me wishes we were all together, because that was some of the best years of my life. Like I said, that’s my wedding party. That was our van, that was our hotel room, those four dudes in one room for years. We would have a suite, but still four dudes in that close quarters, you form a pretty unbreakable bond. But it’s cool. Those guys are all so successful. No matter where they are, no matter what they do, they’re gonna succeed just because they’re all so immensely talented.”

What made you return to TNA?

“So I was with AEW before AEW was a thing, essentially. There was the group of us from Ring of Honor, we all, coincidentally enough, had contracts expiring at the end of that year. The Bucks and Cody, Hangman Page, myself, Scorpio Sky, and Christopher Daniels, we had been privy to some information about this guy, Tony Khan, and he’s a huge wrestling fan, his father’s a billionaire. You know how many times I’ve heard that story? ‘This guy has money. He’s gonna start a wrestling company.’ I’m like, Okay, I believe it when I see it. But ended up meeting Tony and he told us, kind of his vision and everything, asked if we were interested, and it’s like, yeah. All of us kind of collectively are like, we’re doing this. And bam, AEW was born, it burst onto the scene and exploded. It kind of changed wrestling for a while, at least. So I was there, 2019.”

You won their first-ever tag team championships?

“First ever there. Yep, me and Scorpio Sky. They switch it up and put us as the team, we had teamed in Ring of Honor as well. So another one of my best, dear friends and guy have amazing chemistry with best, one of my best buds still to this day. Had that first initial tag run, then that stopped, and then kind of just bounced around, did a pretty cool storyline with myself and CD [Christopher Daniels], where he had a match against The Young Bucks, where I put the stipulation out where if we don’t win this match, if we can’t win these titles, we’re done as a tag team and lost that and that story. If anyone hasn’t seen that story, I recommend go back and looking, because it’s really good, some of our best work, and The Young Bucks as well. Then kind of was starting to do my own singles thing, and then just kind of being used as a utility player. For example, when Christian came into the company, who’s another friend and wonderful wrestler, one of the most underrated dudes on Earth, I had his first match because he trusted me and he hadn’t wrestled in seven years. So they put me in there with him, and we had a great match. When Adam Cole comes, [I’m] his first match. So I was kind of the guy, I could have great matches with anybody, but that was it. That was kind of my role. A lot of times I was kind of relegated to sitting on the bench, and I don’t do well like that. I’m not wired like that. I cannot stand complacency. There came a point where I was thinking to myself, in my opinion, the most valuable thing you can give me, or that I can give you, is time, because that’s the one thing we’re all running out of. Money, possessions, all this stuff, fine, whatever. But for you to give me some of your time, I appreciate that. And so I just thought to myself, with the time I have left in pro wrestling, and this was the end of 2022, I needed to give that time to somebody that valued it and appreciated it. I don’t know if I have five years, ten years left, but I know there’s more years behind me than they’re in front of me. But with the time I have left, I want to give that time to somebody that is going to value and appreciate it more so than I felt it was being valued and appreciated at the end of AEW.”

So your contract came to an end?

“No, I just re-signed the year before. I just re-signed for another three years. And then December of 2022, I get a call from a representative in the office, and they’re like, ‘Hey, just wanna let you know we’re gonna roll you over and we’ll just see.’ I go, ‘Whoa, wait about that. I don’t want that to happen.’ They’re kind of taken aback, and had a long conversation. I said, ‘Look, honestly, I would like you if I could just get my release.’ Everything I just explained to you, I explained to the people at AEW. They were, I don’t want to say shocked, because it’s not like I’m such a giant star, but they were like, just taken aback, because nobody had left AEW this point, Cody did. Cody had left a few months before. So it was like, wow. ‘Well, what if we do like a per-show? What if we do this?’ I go, thank you, but I need to bet on myself. I need to just sever ties and go. A little bit of back and forth, and eventually the message came down to go, Okay, well TK respects you as a man and as a wrestler, and if this is what you want, we can do your release. Can you please have it to me in writing by today? Because I hadn’t talked to anybody, WWE, TNA, I just needed out. I needed that safety net pulled away.” 

Why do you think they let you go?

“Obviously, they probably didn’t see anything long-term in me, you know, which was astonishing, because I was like, why would you re-sign me for very good money, for another three years, if they didn’t see anything? I get it, of course, that’s how it is. I could probably still be there today doing what I was doing, but I’m much, much, much happier where I am now.”

How did that lead to TNA?

“Had conversations with TNA. Scott D’Amore was the boss at the time. Had some conversations with WWE. They were very, very gracious, and some really good conversations with them too. But talked to Scott, and previously, the year before I’d gone over there, I did a miniature feud with Chris Sabin. I won the X-Division title from Speedball [Mike Bailey], and I wrestled Josh Alexander, so I had seen what they were kind of like cultivating over there. And was like, Scott, I would love to be a part of this. He said, ‘Well, we’d love to have you. They just happened to have a pay-per-view coming up in two days.’ I was like, I could start at the pay-per-view. And he said, ‘Oh, it’s great. We’ll fly you, won’t tell anybody.’ So we talked some numbers. He sent a contract over, got it signed, and the next day, flew to Atlanta, Center Stage and made my re-debut.”

How close were you to joining WWE?

“There were conversations, but logistically, it probably wasn’t gonna work. I wasn’t a signature away, but there were a lot of really good conversations. A matter of fact, I can say this, when I re-debuted in January of 2023 I just came out and basically promo saying, I was here as a guest last time, but now I’m back for good. I signed a multi-year deal.”

You had a few matches in WWE back in 2005:

“They put five matches on television. They put me on the road immediately, just to let me get a little bit of money and some reps. So I went on the road the first couple weeks and did some more matches, and then went home, and they’re just like, ‘Well, when we have something for you, we’ll call you.’ Because I wasn’t on a developmental deal, was just a deal. And then it was like, I’m not doing indies or anything. So time is going by and going by. I would call them like, ‘Hey, can I do something?’ At one point they said, ‘Well, do you want to move to Atlanta?’ I’m like, No, I don’t want to move to Atlanta. I didn’t sign a developmental deal. But, if you want me to. But it’s no, just hold tight. We’re working on stuff. I got called again, like, why don’t you go to OVW for a week? They sent me and Kid Cash OVW for a week, which is cool. Trained under Ricky Steamboat, one of my heroes, awesome master class. Had a match, look great. Everything’s great still. And then finally, I get a call from one of the writers. He’s like, ‘Okay, we got something for you. We’re gonna start you. We’re gonna call you “The Future” Frankie Kazarian.’ I’m like, it’s brilliant. I’ve been calling myself that for the previous five years, but I’ve been sitting at home for months, and that’s what you came up with? It’s befuddling. But anyways, yeah, you know, the whole premise of even signing me was they’re revamping the cruiserweight division and this and that. And when I got there, I kind of saw the writing on the wall very early on. Look, I was not ready to be there. I was physically ready. I was ready as a pro wrestler, but I didn’t have the business mentality, WWE is a business, and before I got there, it was just my passion, and I was having fun. And, you know, TNA was a business, but there was a lot more freedom. You know, WWE is a very structured environment, and I just was not ready. I was not mature enough, just as a man to be there. Just wasn’t my time.”

Did you think you made it when you signed that WWE contract?

“Yes and no. Well, because it’s funny, I remember, right before I signed, WWE had just put on a mandate. I don’t know if this was a weird Vince thing. It’s like, no more guys under six foot or 200 pounds, you have to be over. I’m like, kind of right, hovering right there. So I’m like, Well, okay, you know. And then I got a call from Tommy Dreamer, my deal with TNA had lapsed, and TNA wasn’t aware of it. And he told me the revamp in the cruiserweight division, and they were hiring Cash and Juventud, Psychosis and all these guys. And I was like, oh, okay, yeah. When those WWE cheques start showing up, it’s pretty surreal. But then when I got there and started working, I was like, why am I not [happy]? This is everything I’ve dreamed of. Why am I not over the moon about this? That took me a long time to figure out why.”

Do you remember how they pitched Ultimate X to you?

“They pulled us aside, us being myself, Chris Sabin and Michael Shane, and said, ‘We have this idea for a match, like a ladder match without ladders.’ So the original concept was chains going in the form of an X, and the belt is going to hang in the center, and it’s just like this new, innovative match. We’re like, okay. So they’re like, we’re going to fly you in a day early so you can see the structure and kind of get used to it, because they had never been done. So we all got flown into Nashville, and we go down The Asylum, the National Fairgrounds, and they’re still figuring out how to even build it. The original concept they had steel poles inside the ring posts. And they nixed the chain idea, and it was just cable. And they finally got it to where, structurally, it looked good. It’s getting late at night now, and they’re like, ‘Alright, who wants to try it?’ I go, ‘I do, I’ll try it.’ I just jump up, grab and start shimmying. I start shimmying, and all four of the posts just go, then all of a sudden, I’m standing on the ground. So now you got a bunch of these engineers, construction guys, scratching their head like crap, and the pay-per-view is the next day. So, you know, uh oh. So they try to do something else. It doesn’t work. Now it’s like, midnight, one o’clock. So it’s like guys, we’ll figure it out. So we get there the next day. Still don’t really have it figured out. Eventually, they did the lighting trusses, the four lighting trusses on the corners and that could support the weight and the cable and all that. But they didn’t have it set up until 10 minutes before doors opened. So we had all these ideas, but had no clue if we could pull them off. We did not get to practice, rehearse, nothing, all that stuff that happened was just in our head.”

So you didn’t get a chance to climb up?

“Nothing. So we went out there on a live pay-per-view, we knew it would support our weight, and that’s all we knew. But we had these ideas, and it’s not a regular match. You have ideas. One guy’s climbing, the other guy power bombs him, or this guy spears him. Thank God I was in there with two guys that were very, very capable wrestlers, and Chris Sabin and Michael Shane. But we somehow pulled it off, man. It’s become an iconic novelty match in TNA, and in wrestling really.”

You were part of that scary moment where Christopher Daniels almost died:

“I did too, yeah. But it was [the wrestler] Suicide, so nobody cared about him.”

So what was it supposed to be?

The original idea was supposed to be, again, we thought, because it was a multi-man, eight or nine guys in, in there. We thought they were going to have the lighting trusses, but they had cables. Because the idea was, if they had the lighting trusses, myself and Chris Daniels were going to fight to the top. Chris was going to eventually hook me for Angel’s Wings, and I was going to backdrop him off. But we didn’t have the truck. He’s insane, by the way. We’ve established that, obviously we couldn’t do that. So we had the idea of, why don’t we go up there and we can both sit on the cables, and where he takes me and he gives me like a flatliner, and we both go straight back. Well, we both didn’t go straight back. We both went straight down. We both landed pretty high on our head and shoulders, but I hit and I immediately didn’t know where he landed. So I’m just like, through the mask, ‘Is CD Okay, CD Okay, is CD okay?’ And they’re like, ‘Are you okay?’ I’m like, ‘I’m fine. Is CD okay?’ Like, he’s fine. He’s moving. He’s good. I’m like, okay, good, and yeah, I got in trouble with the wife on that one. I’m not allowed to do that anymore.”

I feel like what’s happening with TNA now is similar to the magic of its heyday:

“It is. And I always tell the locker room that, I always say that it’s like, especially with this new AMC deal, I was there when we got the news that we’d be on Fox Sports West, whatever it was at 4 pm on Friday, whatever. But that was TV, and it was an hour, but it was TV. We were thrilled. Then hearing that we’re going to Spike network television, massive. Yeah, this is even bigger. There’s so much excitement. Like I said, TNA’s strength has always been its locker room. Just the work ethic of the guys in the locker room, management changes and all that, but that attitude has always been there. And this team, this crew we got there, the management team, everybody on the roster, is just a joy to be around. And again, a united front all wanting the exact same thing.”

How did you come up with Kazarian?

“So that’s a name, my father’s background is very strange. He was adopted, but he knew his real mother, was raised by his real mother and his two aunts, my aunt June and my grandma. I called her my grandma, June and my aunt Buddy, but never knew who his father was. I think they’re weird, old school, Russian, secretive. I think they all knew, but they wouldn’t tell him, because it was back in the day, it was like, ‘Oh, his mother got pregnant very young, and we don’t want to tell who the father is, blah, blah, blah.’ My dad has three different birth certificates, and one of the names that he thought he was was there his father was this guy named Lester Kazarian or something. So I think he had a birth certificate that said Kazarian. I always remember thinking, that’s a cool name. That’s what I’m going to use when I become a wrestler. Because it just has a z in it, and it just sounded cool and unique. I’d never heard it. That’s it. Frankie Kazarian.”

Does your wife Traci Brooks want to make a comeback?

“No, no, she is very, very comfortable being a mother. She spends a lot of time volunteering at my son’s school, and that kind of was always our vision. What we wanted. We wanted her to be home with my son, because I travel so much, and her doing that. I’ve missed so many moments, but we both would miss those moments without her there. The reason our son is the wonderful young man he is is because of his mother being there with him. So 2023 TNA brought her back, put her in the Hall of Fame. We did her last match, a mixed tag match myself and her against Alicia Edwards and Eddie Edwards, and that was real closure for her. She’s like, I didn’t know I needed that, but I did. So she got that, she got the Hall of Fame, and she’s been back to some of our bigger pay-per-views like Slammiversary, and Bound for Glory. She was part of the Hall of Fame ceremony this past year when Mickie James went in. She still loves it. She still follows her friends who are still involved in it. She still knows what’s going on. But, no, she’s very, very satisfied with her career. She did more than she ever thought she could or would. She’s been asked to do things on smaller scales, it just comes to convention stuff and like in terms of being employed. But we are very, very blessed that she can be a mom and she can spend time volunteering, and she can spend time going home to Canada and visiting her family and everything. So, yeah, it’s worked out well.”

What’s your TNA Mount Rushmore?

“I mean, you got to put Jeff Jarrett on there. I think you have to put Jeff Jarrett on there, 100% you have to put Jeff on there. And now this is where it gets dicey, because you can say Yes, Sting, you say Kurt, but those guys also came from somewhere else, but, like, it’s hard to not put Kurt on. There has to be Jeff, Kurt. Of course, you have to put AJ on. Of course, Jeff, Kurt, AJ and probably Samoa Joe or Sting? I would go with Joe, just because Joe made TNA and TNA made Joe. Sting was already a massive global star, and I’m not discounting what Sting did for our company.”

What is Frankie Kazarian grateful for?

“Friends and family, the male mentors in my life, and the longevity I’ve had in my pro wrestling career.”

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