Carmelo Hayes Is The Future Of WWE! Being NXT Champion, Advice From John Cena, Undertaker Moment

Carmelo Hayes (@carmelo_wwe) is a professional wrestler with WWE and is currently in NXT. He joins Chris Van Vliet to talk about the meaning of being "Him", what being the NXT Champion meant to him, his match with opponents like Ilja Dragunov and Bron Breakker, sharing a moment with The Undertaker on NXT, the advice he received from John Cena, how he came up with the name "Christian Cassanova" that he used on the independent circuit, his favorite wrestlers when he was growing up, looking up to Eddie Guerrero, the pressure of being referred to as the future of WWE and much more!

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Quote I'm thinking about:

As we express our gratitude, we must never forget that the highest appreciation is not to utter words, but to live by them. - John F. Kennedy

For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com

I actually want to start with this. What does it mean to be him?

"I don't know, if you watched NXT last night, you know, I had a kind of come to Jesus moment. If I'm not champion, and I'm not, you know, the top of the card, am I really him? I think, you know, going into this match with Ilja Dragunov, it really is a question I need to ask myself as what you know, what does that mean to be him? If I'm not champion can I say that I'm him? So that's kind of the battle that I'm faced with myself. But you know, it's easy to say you are him when you're successful. And everything's going your way and you got all the championships and you're killing it. But to really ask yourself, What does it mean to be him with nothing to show for it is a question I'm still trying to find out."

You know, that brings me to a really interesting question. Do you think you'll learn more from a win? Or do you learn more from a loss?

"Yeah, absolutely a loss. If you look at my track record in NXT, I've had a title longer than I haven't. So you know, that chasing kind of story that I've had to do has been few and far between. So I'm finding myself on a lot of these losses. You know, it's easy, you when you're at the top and everything is going your way, but down at the bottom, you have to climb your way back to the top. That's where you find yourself."

I feel like you're right. It is weird seeing you without a title around your waist, around your shoulder.

"It's nice, though, because you know, the pressure in the microscope of having a championship isn't always on you. That's the one difference that I think about not being champion, but at the same time, when you get into anything, you know, especially with wrestling, you want to be champion. If you're not trying to be a champion, then what's the point? You know, what's the chase for? So, you know, obviously, I want to be back champion again."

You had a heck of a show a few weeks ago, a lot of people are calling this NXT WrestleMania. And here you are in the main event, you're doing stuff with John Cena, you're doing something with The Undertaker who shows up, walk me through what that day was like for you.

"It was like a dream. It was like a fever dream. And like, it's funny, a lot of people kept, you know, hitting me up the day after and you know, that night. It was like, I almost couldn't believe that it happened. But there was that moment where you're like, Look, I'm a pro. And I'm gonna be in this moment and I understand the assignment, I remember there was a moment where I was a little kid and I'm like, shoot, this is freaking cool, man. This is really cool. The whole thing with Taker at the end, you know, I didn't know that was gonna happen. I just, didn't know what to do. I just kind of was like, let me just walk back with him. And he walked me through the whole thing with the pose and everything. I was just sitting there like a kid. And I remember walking back through I was like, that was so freakin cool. He just patted me on the back. But it was a great moment. Just a cool experience. And something I will never forget."

You did the move at the same time. Like, how did you figure all that out? If you didn't know he's gonna happen?

"Well, he told me, he said, All right on 3, 1, 2, 3. Now don't mess this up. Don't mess this up. But it was just cool. Man. Those guys were just great to work with. And like I said, just a dream. The kid in me was screaming but the pro in me was like, run the play."

Did you have a chance to spend some time with Undertaker after that and maybe pick his brain a little bit?

"So I actually talked to Taker a bunch of times before that. So like we you know, he actually sat down with me one time for like an hour. And we just talked. Same thing with Cena. So I mean, it wasn't my first interaction with these guys, which is probably better, because now they're familiar with me. I'm familiar with them. But yeah, I mean, any opportunity I get to talk to Taker, any opportunity, I get to talk to Paul Heyman and John Cena. I take every single one. And those guys are more than generous with their time, especially with young talent that wants to learn. And we all want to learn in  NXT so you know, they were very, very gracious with their time for sure."

And let's add one more name to that. I mean, you get to work with Shawn Michaels week in and week out. 

"I mean, just this morning, just getting to talk to him for a little bit. Just you know, just relays how proud he is of the work that we're doing. And you know what we're creating at NXT it's just reassuring. But I've learned so much from him and not even what you would think you know, I mean, a lot of people be like, Oh man, the in-ring stuff, you know, but no, it's not. It's there's way more to this than what people realise. It's a lot to do with the facials a lot to do with the demeanour and character, we're at that stage right now."

I'm glad you touched on that. Because I think there's a lot of people that are in the position that you were in a few years ago where you're making a huge name for yourself on the Indies. And then I think that people think if you're a great independent wrestler, you're going to be automatically great in NXT, or on the main roster. Like you said, there's a lot of elements, a lot of components that you don't do in the indies, that you now do where you're at right now.

"For sure, I mean, when I first came in, it was right on the tail end of black and gold. So that was like a super work rate style. And going into 2.0 it was a lot more character-based. And I kind of realised I said, Man, I got to do the best of both worlds. Not that I was a super character on the indies. But I understood kind of now what it's gonna take to do television, wrestling, entertainment, World Wrestling Entertainment, I kind of understood that, and realise that you gotta have an equal balance of, you know, work rate, but at the same time, entertainment value. I think that's what helped me excel. And I'm still learning how to this day."

So let's talk about your time on the indies. How did you come up with the name Christian Casanova?

"So when I went to do a one day fantasy camp, so it was like a tryout camp one of my buddies brought me and he said, let's do this. And I loved wrestling. I wasn't, to be honest, I wasn't really paying attention to WWE at that time. So I'm like, 18, you know, 19. And he's like, come and do this one day, we used to love wrestling as a kid. And I wanted to because I always wanted to be a wrestler. It just seems so far out of reach. You know what I mean? You just didn't know how to get into it. You didn't know how to do it. And I was small. So I'm just thinking, it's just, you know, I'm not these guys. But so we went and, you know, we were going to do a promo, I needed a name. I remember thinking to myself, my name is Christian, my real name is Christian. And I'm like, Cassanova. And I am like that sounds smooth, and I was just kind of ran with it. Never forget my first show. One of the Bookers was like, oh, that's an awful name, we're gonna change that. And just never got changed as ran with it."

So then, how do you go from Christian Casanova into the position you're in right now? What goes into picking the name Carmelo Hayes?

"Sure, it was just understanding that evolution is required in wrestling in general, in this business. Me as a person, like the best part about it was I was a kid in the business, and I grew up, you know, through wrestling, and I had to evolve because of, you know, my circumstances, and then my experiences and you know, I was just seeing my evolution as a human being, as well as a wrestler and, you know, transformed the whole Carmelo thing. Obviously, you know how that works. You get signed to NXT, you know, you're not going to take the same name. So I'm thinking of, like, names that are relatable that people can know but that's not like an overused name. And I'm thinking sports and I'm thinking, you know, music and pop culture. And I just remember Carmelo was just one of many names I threw out. The Hayes name was like purple haze. I remember the conversation was with Hunter. He maybe I thought it might have been a little bit too, you know, gimmicky with haze, like so they changed it to like Michael Hayes. So it was like, you know how that works. And you give them a couple of names. And then they kind of put them together in a name generator, it’s true. But I love my name now."

Does this mean you have some sort of distant relationship to Michael Hayes?

"Every time I see him, I call him my pops, he goes this is my son right here. Every time I see him."

When you started watching wrestling, who was your guy? 

"So when I first started watching wrestling, I loved Rey Mysterio. I remember I watched his debut. So that's how I can like put a timeline on when I was watching. I remember when he debuted. Edge I loved Edge. I loved Eddie Guerrero. Cena, of course, like Taker, Kane RVD. Booker, Rock obviously, Stone Cold man, all those guys. There were so many big names back then." 

I think one of the biggest things with you is when your name gets brought up. Everybody goes Melo is the future. Does that put pressure on you? Or does that make you excited for what's possible?

"No, it puts pressure on me just holds high expectations. And I love it in that way. It's not a bad thing at all. Like it's a super compliment. But I do understand that in a lot of fans’ eyes and other people's eyes. They're just looking at me kind of like Oh, everybody says you’re the man, they're looking for faults. And it's hard. It's tough. You know what I mean? Because it's like, you just want to go out and do what you do. And you don't want to be super microscoped. But it comes with the job. And it comes with, you know the pressure of that. And I'd rather that than say you know he's underrated or whatever, I'd rather people rate property. Because I truly do believe I am the future. And it's nice to know that your peers at the same."

You just came into WWE. It's such an interesting time, like when you were in the PC, you're one of the few people in the PC at that time who has a background in wrestling, like you were an indie star. And there's a lot of people in the PC at that time who are collegiate athletes or, you know, something along those lines. How different was that being in the PC where you've got this background but maybe you're not what they're looking for at that time? Maybe you're not what they were recruiting?

"Sure. Yeah, I was one of few. There wasn't a lot. It wasn't too many, especially now. It's even fewer. But I knew you know, it was, a lot of people could look at that like maybe being envious that they didn't have to go through what I had to go through but truly I was not envious at all because I felt leaps and bounds ahead. Like I've got so many cool experiences that I feel like I've been in most situations before that set me up for success in WWE. So you know, a lot of them are experiencing things for the first time. I'm like, Man, I got my butt kicked about five times for messing up something like this is nothing you know, or I've been in this position before in a match where something goes wrong. Or you know, they've experienced it for the first time on live TV. Thankfully, I got to experience it in front of 50 people, you know, for 50 bucks. But it's just it's one of those things where I root for everybody because I understand like, this is not easy, man. This is not easy. And if you're willing to give up your life for this because it is that bro, like it's 24/7. And, you know, I commend these guys coming in and opening up to a new world. This is a new world, man."

So when you look at these matches with you and Ilja Dragunov, these are intense. These are stiff. What's the conversation like before you get in the ring with him? Because it sure feels like you guys are giving it to each other.

"There's no conversation. It's just what’s understood is understood. You know what I mean, he's so fantastic at what he does, that there's like you almost have that expectation of hey, I'm going to get into the ring and it's not going to be a night off. Not like anybody has nights off in wrestling but it's not going to be, you're going to fight for your life in a good way, you know I mean because those are the matches that are most highly regarded you know my matches especially. People love those matches so to me it's like whatever we got to do let's go all out, it’s what happens and if they're happy I'm happy."

How sick are you of people talking about Melo and the main roster because you get it every day I'm sure.

"Yeah, I'm not sick of it. But it's just kind of like I wish people would just appreciate the time that I'm in right now and stop trying to future-book me. You know what I mean? Just like let’s living in the moment because I've been able to do that. And if I can do that, you all can do that. I'm super excited for what's to come. A year ago, I was like, you know, a little bit antsy about it. And then I realised I said, You know what, let me just embrace the spirit in my life. Because, you know, we're gonna have all those moments down the road, but you know, this period right now, you only get this one time, you know, I mean, the come up, you know, the rise, and I've been grateful enough to be in such a great position and then ecstasy where it's truly been an uphill rise. So, you know, I couldn't complain if I wanted to. So I just want the fans to just enjoy this process right now and see me grow. Because you know, once you get to the main roster, it's like starting from scratch. It's like a baby. So you know, this form of Carmelo Hayes is probably not gonna be the same form of Carmelo Hayes on the main roster. So to say, Let's just enjoy this now while it's there."

I'm gonna put you on the spot here. What's your favourite Shawn match?

"You know, an underrated match man. I loved him and Jeff Jarrett. I really enjoyed that match. A lot of people don't give that match a lot of credit. I really enjoyed that match. I mean, he has so many I love that version of Shawn. And then obviously you know his matching taker like For the storyteller, his metric, Kurt, you really can get into that. And it's so funny because he'll joke about he's like, I don't know why they show. You know, here at the PC, they show you guys me and Takers like we had 30 years. You know, he's like, tell you guys to do it like this when we had 30 years of you know what I mean? Of building up our names like, you guys can't do this for another 20-some years. But yeah."

I thought it was so cool to see you in the ring with Cody Rhodes like to make sure that he would have the clearance to be able to wrestle again. How were you selected as that guy?

"So I know Cody had like, he'd been reaching out and helping me out give me like little pointers and telling me that things are good and giving me like, you know, just talking to me a little bit about certain matters prior to that. And then I know he was getting ready to come back from the Rumble. And he had picked Joe Gacy myself to kind of work around with him. I think it had a lot to do with you know, Joe Gacy being a little bit bigger, me being a little bit more agile and faster. And then obviously Cody, you know, just want to get to know us younger talent and stuff like that. But it was a huge honour. And like I said in his documentary, I didn't feel like I was helping him. I felt like he was helping me. He was fine. He was chilling but I was like, Oh my god. This is how these guys do it. This is such a difference when you get in there with guys like that. Is such a difference like you like oh, this is that pacing this is that you know I mean, this is that energy. This is where you turn it up here. Like I learned a lot with Cody. I really did."

There was a video that I think you posted of John Cena backstage with you and Trick and he's wearing your glasses and putting you guys over. Did that just kind of randomly happen?

"Yeah, he is cool when he just was like, whatever. Yeah, sure. Like you can because people forget that. That dude was like the coolest man so funny when they're like on the tail end where they're just kind of like, I used to be this back in the day. I'm like, dude, Thuganomics. That was so cool. I got Yeah, I told him. I said, Can we do the bang, bang and then do the Thuganomics thing he thought about it first. He's like, Yeah, I was like, let's go. I'm thinking man, that was cool."

There's a lot of fans that saw that moment with The Undertaker and putting the arm up as kind of a passing of the torch moment. Do you see it as that?

"I don't know. I mean, it was cool to be in that moment. You know, it's hard to say like, when you're in it, and it's you. It's different. You know, I mean, I'm sure it's like other people can interpret things like from the outside perspective on the inside. To me, it was like it was business. It was like this is this is what we're doing. And you don't get too caught up in. What does this mean? Does it just mean, I'm the next guy. Like, we don't get caught up in that because we got TV next Tuesday. And John Cena is not going to be there. And The Undertaker is not going to be you know, I'm saying so it's like, we don't get caught up in those things. I know a lot of fans do. And that's awesome. You know, I mean, I love that for them. But truly, as entertainers, and as you know, being those guys in there, and pros like we have to focus on what we got to do. So I don't get caught up in any of that. That was freaking cool as hell, I can't deny that. But you know, if I'm the guy or whatever, whatever, that's not on my mind. Just thinking about our we got to TV next Tuesday. Let's kill that and just focus on that."

When I put out on Twitter that I was going to be sitting down with you today. Everyone's like, You got to ask him. Why did he attack Trick Williams?

"Right. Why did I do it when there's no proof that I did it? What a crazy question I'm telling you, man, it feels like a witch hunt, it is crazy. I post a thing with my girl on her birthday people like Oh, happy birthday, but also why did you attack Trick? Can I live? I mean, listen, like people just say things you know. I'm holding my ground on now. I'm staying on my business. You know, I mean, assume on that. And you know, people are going to get an apology. I would never do this on my boy. Especially not over a championship."

What are three things in your life that you're grateful for right now?

"Well, for my health, my mindset, and I'm grateful for just the people around me and the positive support that I have and the love that I get from a lot of people."